French moaning again... //

Author
  Topic Started By:  spudski    On:  Wed 24th October, 2012 at 16:25
spudski
Member Since: 2007
Posts: 2,341
depth's of despair
#1  French moaning again...  24 Oct '12 at 16:25
... http://www.e-tid.com/ski-operators-face-loss-of-guides-in-france/54034/
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spudski
Member Since: 2007
Posts: 2,341
depth's of despair
#3  Re: French moaning again...  26 Oct '12 at 17:22
In reply to daisy (Post #2)

Originally posted by daisy

http://tunein.com/topic/?TopicId=37144044#

The Hugh Schofield contribution is worth listening to. I think it's the last report.

I love living in France but it really is a country of peevish adult teenagers.

Selah.

dx

I believe they wallow in not being liked...the Millwall of europe...
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andaj
Member Since: 2010
Posts: 49
Tignes
#4  Re: French moaning again...  1 Nov '12 at 16:32
In reply to spudski (Post #1)
this is good news. tour operators continually take the piss and undermine local laws and regulations.

ski hosting got added to the busy workload of reps but the reps didnt get any extra pay or relieved of other duties.

with a bit of luck, a few hundred reps across France will be able to get another couple of days skiing a week for themselves instead of with people older than their parents!
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spudski
Member Since: 2007
Posts: 2,341
depth's of despair
#5  Re: French moaning again...  1 Nov '12 at 17:17
In reply to andaj (Post #4)

Originally posted by andaj

this is good news. tour operators continually take the piss and undermine local laws and regulations.

ski hosting got added to the busy workload of reps but the reps didnt get any extra pay or relieved of other duties.

with a bit of luck, a few hundred reps across France will be able to get another couple of days skiing a week for themselves instead of with people older than their parents!

Hmmm...not sure about your reasoning.
If you are a rep and your TO asks you to do ski hosting, then you will know about this at Interview stage...take it or leave it.
There are plenty of TO ski hosting jobs that don't require repping.
Where would the Ski schools and Guides be without all the TO's providing clients for them?
Hosts just potter about the pistes, showing clients the resort and places to eat.
They are not taking any work away from the French at all imho.
In fact Ski hosts are encouraged to promote the local guides and ski schools.
I really don't see their gripe when you consider how much business 'foreign' TO's bring to their Country.
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andaj
Member Since: 2010
Posts: 49
Tignes
#6  Re: French moaning again...  1 Nov '12 at 17:47
In reply to spudski (Post #5)

Originally posted by spudski




There are plenty of TO ski hosting jobs that don't require repping.
Where would the Ski schools and Guides be without all the TO's providing clients for them?
.
They are not taking any work away from the French at all imho.

I really don't see their gripe when you consider how much business 'foreign' TO's bring to their Country.

fair enough, for dedicated 'ski hosts' I agree, change in the rules isnt ideal for them if it goes through as they will be out of work.

My point is that reps got lumped with ski hosting as an additional task. Hosting compared to going out skiing with your friends is rubbish.

As for taking work away from the ski schools, I am fairly neutral on this. A lot of guests who go along for ski hosting wouldnt bother with lessons even if there wasnt ski hosting. However, I think a few people, not many, would take lessons if hosting wasnt available. This wouldnt necessarily be because they want/need to improve but for the social aspect.

I think their 'gripe' is that although the TOs do bring lots of custom in, they simply want to make more off the tourists. Misguided logic, possibly, but hardly unreasonable.
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spudski
Member Since: 2007
Posts: 2,341
depth's of despair
#8  Re: French moaning again...  1 Nov '12 at 19:50
In reply to daisy (Post #7)
Well said Daisy...

And as i keep reminding them on the slopes...if it wasn't for others they'd all be speaking German...
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andaj
Member Since: 2010
Posts: 49
Tignes
#9  Re: French moaning again...  1 Nov '12 at 22:28
In reply to daisy (Post #7)

Originally posted by daisy



But France isn't market driven... customers over here are regarded as an annoyance... they are a hassle, they get in the way of the important business of running your business. E-commerce and web design is fifteen years behind the rest of the world and they HATE and I really mean HATE it when Johnny foreigner claims to have a skill or a trade. Tough sh*t boyo, if you don't have a French qualification you'll be lucky to get a job washing lettuce in Macdonalds. If you start a taxi firm expect to have your tyres slashed or if you open up a budget ski rental business that undercuts the established businesses expect to have your delivery vehicles burnt out.

This is French protectionism. Its paranoid, its xenophobic, it's profoundly economically unhealthy and I does my effing head in, because I have to deal with it on a daily basis.

Dont believe me? Try starting a business or getting a supplier to tell you when your two grands worth of materials will be delivered ("Non")

Rant over.

dx

The main reason I am happy with the posted article on ski hosting is because I used to have to ski host. Ski hosting was crap, it got old reaaallly fast. In previous seasons, the person that did my exact same job for the same amount of pay didnt have to ski host so got an extra three days on the mountain for themselves. No more ski hosting = more personal mountain time for hundreds of reps = great news, a mon avis.

Additionally, what difference would it make to TOs if, hypothetically, hosting was completely banned this winter? No one would be losing competitive edge since it would apply to all. Shy of mark warner, le ski and Ski Club of GB I am not aware of any companies with dedicated hosts so hardly anyone would be out of work.

I agree entirely with the French being xenophobic and backwards with the way they conduct business. I actually do run a business in France and have been experienced it first hand on too many occasions. I have even been told that I cant join the local business association because "you are not French". (this was actually in an email which makes it even funnier) For one of my major clients, I work purely on commission, once he got very upset since I had a great few weeks and made a large amount of commission. My client got upset because "you cost me too much money". I pointed out I am on commission, more for me = more for you..... they just dont get it. I have also given up on using French suppliers and get stuff shipped over from the UK so I do feel your pain!

Nice rant btw ;)
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sandgroper61
Member Since: 2004
Posts: 9,317
London
#11  Re: French moaning again...  2 Nov '12 at 07:58
In reply to techmonkey (Post #10)
Nice piece, Techers.
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.

=============================

The difference between a cult and a religion: in a cult, there is someone at the top who knows it's a scam. In a religion, that person is dead.
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spudski
Member Since: 2007
Posts: 2,341
depth's of despair
#13  Re: French moaning again...  2 Nov '12 at 10:12
In reply to daisy (Post #12)
I've never lived in France for more than 5 months at a time...but the French, in that time did my head in.
It's always crossed my mind that if all the foreign TO's pulled out of French Ski Resorts, and they only relied on French holiday makers...would they care?

I get the impression they wouldn't.
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Kenzie
Member Since: 2004
Posts: 3,051
God's own county/Tignes/South America/North America/Australasia/Asia/Africa
#14  Re: French moaning again...  2 Nov '12 at 11:22
In reply to daisy (Post #12)

Originally posted by daisy

"Finally, the French don't just want to keep foreigners out, they want to keep themselves out... "

I suppose thats the crucial sentence. I understand this. I'm the only Brit living in my tiny village down here (60km as the crow flies from Spain) and I have some pals who live a few doors down. They come from the North of France and have lived here for twenty five years. Half the village still wont talk to them because "they're not from round 'ere".

As for the taxi firm/ski hire firm thing I was referring not to xenophobia but using it to illustrate that entrepreneurship or adopting a "market forces/competitive" attitude to your business prompts outrage and violence... I was as it happens referring specifically to Ski Republic and the response to their two for one offer from so called competitors.

Apart from that Techers, agree with every word.

dx

There are villages in Huddersfield who are like that to Huddersfield people not from their village (stand up Meltham, Marsden, etc)
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Wendy
Member Since: 2008
Posts: 2,499
France
#23  Re: French moaning again...  4 Nov '12 at 13:09
In reply to daisy (Post #22)
Yeah...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIW_H-_I0u8

...it's 'cardonnay'. Even Kyles knows that.

Hope the hangover isn't too bad. Have some drinks for me please.
Life in the French Alps: www.lefrancophoney.com
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spudski
Member Since: 2007
Posts: 2,341
depth's of despair
#26  Re: French moaning again...  17 Nov '12 at 09:39
In reply to Dinosaur (Post #25)
Fair play to the Brits supporting Le Ski....

http://www.planetski.eu/news/4392
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Peacock
Member Since: 2009
Posts: 452
Courchevel
#27  Re: French moaning again...  17 Nov '12 at 13:09
In reply to spudski (Post #26)
Interesting the Total/Inghams/Esprit were there, cos as far as I'm aware, we will still be offering ski hosting this coming season (unless things changed as a result of this meeting).

One thing I have noticed is that TO's seem to be moving away from ESF to other ski schools, eg New Generation.
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